The BRZ - Feel Like Yourself

"Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig" (AndySheehan-StreetsideStig) 09/05/2013 at 13:44 • Filed to: None

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You don’t ask to drive a man’s car unless that man is in the business of selling it. But when my friend Greg asked if I wanted a turn in his brand new !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , the Six-star version of the most anticipated sports car of our age, I didn’t turn him down.

Before we’d even switched seats, Greg demonstrated the brakes (perhaps so I wouldn’t have to) with a hard slow at a corner. I wouldn’t have tried a similar move in my WRX. But though the BRZ has ventilated discs and dual piston calipers in the front, I think most of its stopping ability comes from its weight, or lack thereof: just 2,700 lbs.

If the BRZ has a party piece, it’s the steering. The wheel was tight and the response almost precognitive, a confidence-injector. I learned much later that the power steering is, indeed, electric. I guess it’s time to toss out my notions about electric power steering’s numbness or lack of feedback. I noticed nothing of the sort. In fact, when Troy, who had somehow wedged himself into the back seat, wondered if the power steering was electric or hydraulic, I thought it a ridiculous question. Of course it was hydraulic.

I was able to shove aside my distracted, shaking glee for long enough to address another key question – yes, there is enough power. Since the days of Toyota Promotions Yore, before anyone ever even got to drive the thing, we said that 200 hp from the 2.0 boxer four wouldn’t be enough. And at the track, we may have been right. But in town, I’m pretty sure I never used all 200, and the tires came loose easily enough. There are benefits to the low power, too. Subaru advertises 34 mpg on the highway.

And I really think I’d be fine taking a highway trip in the BRZ. The seats were breathable, though the bolster was high, which might get annoying after a while. The similar pair in my WRX certainly do. The ride, while happily reporting every bump and pot hole, wasn’t obnoxious. The dash was tastefully lined with everything you might need, including a Bluetooth system and a more-than-serviceable speaker set.

In fact, my only ding toward the “comfort” category was the clutch, which had a distractingly high transfer point. You can get used to it, sure, but it felt out of character for the car, and in such close quarters, all the up-and-down gets troublesome for the left knee.

Of course, I wasn’t in the back seat, like Troy, who measures about 6’4.” Greg and I are both tall guys, too, so Troy’s leg room came courtesy of the seat beside him. In fact, unless you’re riding with Warwick Davis, the back seats are great for trunk space, and that’s about it. Greg’s wife Kim said she wouldn’t put a baby seat back there. Maybe a toddler seat.

Back to that clutch for a moment: It was paired with a genuinely excellent six-speed transmission. The shifts were tighter than Ben Howard lyrics, as if the lever was gated somewhere below the trim. Feeling a gear click home is a tremendously satisfying experience. A five-speed might have meant less shifting, but with such a shifter, who would want that?

I’ve said before that the Toyota GT86 twins, known stateside as the BRZ and its Scion counterpart, the FRS, are cars !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Check the buff books for proof. I’ve seen comparisons between the 86 and the Miata (a two-seat convertible), the FWD Ford Fiesta ST, the awkward Hyundai Veloster, even a V6 Mustang.

What this means is that the small, cheap, lightweight, practical, RWD sports car is all but dead. This one example is about all we have. As I climbed out of the seat, I realized that it was unlike anything I’d really ever driven, not because it was particularly extreme or different, but because it wasn’t.

The 86 isn’t power hound, leaking magma and nitromethane all over the street. It isn’t a stripped-down time attacker. It isn’t a bastion of status or luxury, or a graffiti mural about how extreme you and your bros live. It’s just a normal sports car, balanced and secure, like the girl you know you want to marry, the one who makes you feel like yourself.

Last month Subaru announced the BRZ tS by STi. That’s a lot of letters, and we don’t really need to dissect them, because it likely won’t be sold outside Japan anyway. But the tS means upgrades to the brakes, the aero, the tires, and the suspension. Plenty of good stuff. When we first heard about the tS, we hoped again that would get more power, and now, having driven a stock BRZ, I don’t think we were unjustified. Not because 200 isn’t adequate, but because any decent effort to tune an eight-six will inevitably result in a dramatic change in the car’s whole character, and as long as they’re changing it, they might as well change it big.

Instead, the tS almost seems like Subaru is trying to make the BRZ even more like a BRZ, and comes across as a bit silly. This isn’t to say that the BRZ shouldn’t be modded. I’ve long thought it was designed as a platform. But even in stock form, it comes to an absolute point, the exact mathematical needle-tip where handling, power, value, styling, and practicality all converge.

If you want better handling, the cost will go up for !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and such. If you want more power, you’ll lose a bit of grip around the corners and you’ll have to wait out the turbo lag. If you want less weight, you’ll have to give up the well-appointed interior. If you want more downforce, you’ll compromise the clean lines with a tray table wing.

This convergence might sound negative, but I think the dead-end sharpness might make the GT86 the most important sports car of our generation. It means that Toyota and Subaru have developed an uncompromising invitation to car enthusiasm for a generation increasingly being spoonfed compromise from others. We millennials all want a Corvette. We really do. But most of us couldn’t handle the power, we couldn’t afford to pay the premiums for magnetic suspensions and the like, and we don’t always want the attention.

The eight-six twins politely suggest that we don’t need to. Here’s an accessible sports car with actual rear-wheel-drive and an actual six-speed and no fine print or gimmicks. Here’s an incredibly pure and simple driving machine for you to enjoy and hoon and affordably insure and study for the finer points of enthusiast motoring. It’s a boxer-engined billboard that says, “I believe in you guys, and you’ll turn out just fine.”

Thanks to Kim for the awesome shots. Check out more of her amazing photography !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

This article was originally published at !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , but I've posted it here on Oppo in case any of you ran out of hair product like I did this morning.

ddavidn > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/05/2013 at 13:48

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My turn next!

Casper > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/05/2013 at 13:53

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I think it would be a great car after the addition of a small high end turbo like an EFR 6758 in .64 trim or, more likely what I will do to the wife's car, a super charger like this:

Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig > Casper 09/05/2013 at 13:54

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I'm sure it would, but it would be a very different experience. The car's so well balanced as it is.

Saracen > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/05/2013 at 13:56

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There is no way that 200hp is enough to compensate for tiny wangs.

maximillious > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/05/2013 at 14:12

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This needs to be on the front page for all to see and read!

Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig > Saracen 09/05/2013 at 15:01

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That's okay, because as I noted above, the BRZ is like the girl who wants to marry you despite your...deficiencies. (Wow. I spelled deficiencies right, first try.)

Chteelers > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/05/2013 at 15:56

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I get all your points, but also... power. If it had a 50hp turbo, and price jumped from $25.5k to $27.5k, then it would have a power/weight ratio close to my current 370Z, and undercut it on price. Power/weight of .1 hp/lb is the minimum of what I'd consider a sports car. Anything below that is just a sporty car.

Yeah, yeah, MX-5, yeah yeah. If I can't out-accelerate a Camry I'm not interested.

Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig > Chteelers 09/05/2013 at 16:19

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Well, it's not just about overall power. It's about feel . And after driving around my (very awesome and beloved) WRX for years, it was refreshing to feel some actual horsepower, even 200 of them, without waiting for a turbo to spool up.

I'm sure, down the road, when the warranties dry up, alot off these will end up turbocharged, probably even more than the Civic and such, because Subaru engines are pretty friendly with turbos. And that will be good. The Richies who have added snails already have done some very good work. But once again, it just changes the character of the car. It's so well balanced as it is that I'm not sure a power improvement would make it better, just different.

Chteelers > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/05/2013 at 17:28

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Yeah, but newer turbos from the factory are getting much better about lag. Not sure what year WRX you have, but I drove a gen 2 and I agree that it had significant lag. However, newer turbo cars have much flatter torque curves. I think a factory turbo BRZ could be very cool.

manifold engines > Saracen 09/05/2013 at 21:04

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Hence the reason for the Mustang to exist - especially the GT (Genitalia Tantillus - trans: Genitals so little)

somemarine > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/05/2013 at 21:12

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Nice review.

What year is your WRX? I have a 2013 and often kick myself for not finding a BRZ to compare it to before buying.

was3859 > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/05/2013 at 22:00

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Pretty good overview, though I will say that I feel the exact opposite about the seats. I've had mine for a bit over a year now and even as a bigger guy, the bolstering has never bothered me, but the alcantara seats when it gets the slightest bit hot outside are death. I've never been in seats that breathe so poorly.

Agree on the clutch in that it's an oddly high clutch point, but the it's so incredibly light that it's not bad at all on the leg. I come from a 997, which has much less clutch pedal travel, but is like trying to push a boulder. It's more satisfying during performance driving, but way more tiring during everyday duty.

dmtactical > Chteelers 09/05/2013 at 23:14

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The lack of turbo is exactly what interests me most. I really like driving, and that means that I need a car that is reliable and affordable. A small engine with no turbo will not have enough power to destroy the tires or drivetrain, and will be less expensive to buy up front, less expensive to feed, and less expensive to maintain. That means more money left to spend on road trips or even just driving around town for the love of it. And to me, that's really exciting.

manifold engines > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/05/2013 at 23:57

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Got a pic of Troy in the back seat? That would be interesting - I've yet to coax anyone back there...

nealsoad > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/06/2013 at 00:28

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Nice cover pic! That's just a few blocks from my office. Awesome seeing downtown Indianapolis getting some photo-love!

James Brotherton - NOAA Federal > nealsoad 09/06/2013 at 05:34

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Yeah but Indy blows!

Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig > nealsoad 09/06/2013 at 08:07

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One of the owners of the car is a professional photographer. She does really good work. There's a link at the bottom of the article, with tons more shots of the BRZ.

Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig > manifold engines 09/06/2013 at 08:08

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Nuts, I definitely should have done that.

Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig > Chteelers 09/06/2013 at 08:08

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Yeah, that's a good point. Mine's old. It's an '02.

Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig > was3859 09/06/2013 at 08:10

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I don't remember the seats being alcantara. I completely agree about that stuff. I had it on my WRX when I first bought it. I hated it so much I spent four hundred bucks on a new pair of front seats.

Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig > somemarine 09/06/2013 at 08:10

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Mine's old. An '02. I love it, though!

Big Block I-4 > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/06/2013 at 09:26

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I find this to be upsetting and would like to take myself out of the millennial category if this is a true statement.

We millennials all want a Corvette. We really do.

Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig > Big Block I-4 09/06/2013 at 09:29

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I didn't say it was our first choice. Just a statement about how we actually like bonkers, high-hp sports and muscle cars.

Big Block I-4 > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/06/2013 at 09:41

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Ok, i agree with that sentiment then!

BRZJon > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/06/2013 at 10:02

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I'm glad you wrote this. Ever since I owned the BRZ I was bombarded with a lot of negative comments about the car (mainly that it needed more power). Just like you I think the car is fantastic in its stock form.

nealsoad > James Brotherton - NOAA Federal 09/06/2013 at 11:34

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How Poignant. I'm guessing you must live on either the near east side or somewhere on Post Rd? Indy does not blow unless you hate beer, festivals, good food, awesome sports, music, or the arts.

brandondrums > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/06/2013 at 12:49

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It's funny how we all forget that subaru makes a wonderful 3.0l flat six that weighs but a few lbs more and is but one inch longer than the 4 cylinder: at least compared to the EJ engines.

The BRZ shouldn't be forced induction but an upgraded version could take a 300hp NA flat six and retain all of its responsiveness and nearly all of its fuel economy. It would be basically an easier bolt on situation vs making a turbo version. Just implement the direct injection ports on 2 more cylinders and the AVCS cam gears from the 4 banger and go.

You could easily price that in the mid $30's with slightly wider and stickier rear tires and it would be a knockout punch to all the "buy a v6 mustang instead" people and even threaten the folks wanting a used boxster or cayman.

Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig > brandondrums 09/06/2013 at 12:53

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They still make that? I thought the H6 went out years ago.

magman007 > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/06/2013 at 13:32

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id like to see what the old wrx wing would look like on the brz.

Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig > magman007 09/06/2013 at 13:35

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This one?

magman007 > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/06/2013 at 13:53

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yep

Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig > magman007 09/06/2013 at 13:55

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Eh, I think it would look pretty goofy. That trunk's pretty small.

brandondrums > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/06/2013 at 15:21

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Actually, they did stop making the 3.0L but they still make the 3.6L which is both in the top model Outback and in the Tribeca.

At one point it was the lightest weight 6cyl engine in a production car before Porsche came out with a new version of theirs. That was back when the current Tribeca first came out I believe.

They make 256hp and 247ft/lbs of torque. They could easily make 300+ HP without DI though. They make the above power on regular gas. Add Direct Injection and they could make 350 HP I'm sure.

The best option for the BRZ would be to bring back the 3.0L which was replaced by the 3.6L version in 2008 according to wikipedia. They use the same block and heads essentially but they just bored and stroked it to 3.6L. The 3.0L is much better optimized for a sportscar as it makes it's power higher in the revband but either version would work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_S…

http://www.subaru.com/engineering/bo…

Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig > brandondrums 09/06/2013 at 15:26

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And that will do 34 mpg on the highway?

brandondrums > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/06/2013 at 15:53

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Nope but neither will a turbo model either. I bet you a DI N/A flat six will come much closer though.

brandondrums > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/06/2013 at 15:56

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Yeah yeah it's well balanced but so is the Boxster and Cayman and each have models with over 300hp.

I assure you, more power will not hurt the BRZ's balance. You have to remember that the current BRZ comes with skinny low rolling resistance Prius tires. Any amount of power can get those to break loose and 200hp probably feels about perfect for tires that subaru/toyota selected for their LACK of grip.

Put summer performance tires with a bit more width to them and the chassis will love some more HP.

brandondrums > BRZJon 09/06/2013 at 16:04

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It is, I don't think the stock version needs more power. I think they are dumb not to consider a higher power version of the car. It comes with Prius tires - rubber selected for it's LACK of grip to make the car break loose with only 200hp and at low speeds. A more performance oriented version (stock they are Fun oriented) wider stickier tires and more power would be all the car needs to fetch 35K plus.

If you watch DRIVE on youtube they actually have a show called "BRZ or that?" where they talk about and test used sportscars that cost about the same as a new BRZ. The BRZ has lost to a Porsche Boxster and Cayman, Honda S2000, RX-8 because all of them have more power and more grip.

The thing is that they ALWAYS say that the BRZ is a better car that's held back by it's engine and tires. Just offering a more powerful version alone would make the BRZ go down in the history books as one of the best drivers cars ever made period. Not just one of the best drivers cars FOR THE MONEY ever made.

Regardless though, that's just in stock form. I fully believe it's a tuner platform so I'm trying to convince my dad to get one who wants to get a E46 M3 and have the engine upgraded and a turbo installed. That mod would go a lot further on the BRZ.

Not trashing the car or you, just saying that subaru and toyota are really dropping the ball by not offering folks the option of more power.

Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig > brandondrums 09/06/2013 at 16:07

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Probably, but I'm not convinced it needs a turbo, either. I think it's kindof a classic small sports car: not much power, not much need.

brandondrums > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/06/2013 at 16:57

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I'm not suggesting the standard BRZ needs to be changed at all. I'm just suggesting that there's huge demand for a more expensive and more powerful version of the BRZ and that a Flat 6 and some tire/suspension upgrades would go a LONG way in getting a completely different market segment interested in the program.

It's not the same argument as saying the MX5 could use more power, that's a car that really doesn't even cross the minds of bigger budget buyers because as good as it is, it doesn't have the overall potential as the BRZ does. The BRZ on the other hand gets compared to the Cayman and Boxster. The Miata is just a good bargain and Mazda has (until recently) had a better sports car in their lineup in the form of the RX7 and RX8.

Another point to consider is that the WRX and STI were (and probably still will be) faster versions of the Impreza which at it's base was NOT developed to have amazing balance or dynamics. The BRZ on the other hand was SPECIFICALLY built to have amazing balance or dynamics. It would be like if Chevy decided that the Corvette was fine with the base model engine and never offered any special versions of it and instead made their fastest and most expensive model out of an upgraded Cruze.

Not only is it a special car but it's also the ONLY true sportscar in both Toyota and Subaru's lineup. They should flaunt it rather than doom it to only having one variant.

somemarine > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/06/2013 at 17:13

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That's the best year, imo. My cousin has an alpine white (?) '02 with less than 70,000 miles on it. If he ever gives in I will buy his and sell mine.

Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig > somemarine 09/07/2013 at 21:02

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Well, I appreciate how analog it is, but the '02 only has 226 hp, stock.

It's my daily, though, and 226 is plenty for gunning around the city. I've never been disappointed with the power. Could use a quicker turbo-spool, though. I'll upgrade that someday.

70k for an '02 is practically mint. Mine had 117k when I bought it, and that's pretty rare.

The World of Vee > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/08/2013 at 22:25

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You know, there's something to be said about 200hp being enough power. I have a 400hp E39M5 and I also had a 4WD 1990 Toyota Sprinter with 170 hp. The M5 is an absolute monster when you want it to be and a comfortable cruiser when you don't. I could easily put my nieces in the back seats, and cruise on the highway at 70/80 mph and they'd be none the wiser singing songs, looking out the windows and playing games. And then when they're back at their mom's, I could take it to a local tarmac track and burn the tires away in 10 laps because again...it's a monster.

The E90 Sprinter with it's 170hp, 4wd and 5 speed would top out at around 120mph (this is more a product of the times, similar cars could probably go 150/160 now) but because it weighs a feature (1200/1300 pounds) it was like driving a go kart with a rocket booster and a radio. It was just plain fun, you could flick the thing in corners and you could go up and through mountain passes and with the skinny tires of the 90s easily get into 4 wheel drift. It's just a totally different style of driving. I'm sure, since it has a 4A-GZE, that it could be tuned to make it go very, very fast, but I'm not sure I'd want to mess with it's wonderful dynamics. Sports cars are best driven at their limits, and with a slower car you can reach the limit on places that aren't just an airport.

Stu L Tissimus > manifold engines 09/08/2013 at 22:26

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I've successfully fit myself and 3 people ranging from medium to tall in the car.

Nobody's comfortable but it'll make do for a 20 minute jog to chinatown.

Stu L Tissimus > manifold engines 09/08/2013 at 22:27

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I've gotten 3 other people in it with me; it isn't comfortable for anybody, but it'll make do for a short jog.

Pro tip: Lift the drivers seat, it opens up space for the guy behind you's feet!

FrankenB5S4 > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/08/2013 at 22:32

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Horsepower upped to 250 and a decent set of tires would make this car. That is all.

pwolfamv > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/08/2013 at 22:35

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Good timing... I just bought mine yesterday have been driving it all day. I love it.

suss6052 > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/08/2013 at 22:36

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I've not driven the BR-Z or FR-S yet but from the descriptions I don't know that I'd like it over my 2013 Focus ST even though it's FWD. I have an old beat up 2009 Crown Victoria for some rear wheel drive action, besides the Focus rotates beautifully and is incredibly fun to drive while still being a practical hatchback that you could reasonably fit 3 passengers besides the driver and not be out of space.

signintokinjalol > brandondrums 09/08/2013 at 22:41

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The chassis isn't that well built as were lead to believe, more then 300HP will kill this car, no matter how much money you pour into a proper suspension model. It's quite obvious since everyone running more then 300HP is having trouble getting around a corner without the ass going first. Which is tons of fun in its own right...

But of course there is no "proper" proof on what this car can do. But this car is going down a more hybrid path. A good KERS that will be barley notable in the weight would be very nice to see in this car, and piss of the purists.

NinetyQ > manifold engines 09/08/2013 at 22:42

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I'm Troy. I took this picture from the back seat, so that kinda helps a bit. Greg is the one driving in the picture. While taking this, I believe I was also reclined quite a bit and had my head bent forward a bit. It was... interesting riding around in the backseat of a car like that being hooned by a couple of guys.

manifold engines > NinetyQ 09/08/2013 at 22:47

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Very considerate of you taking your shoes off! Thanx for the pic.

marshknute > Chteelers 09/08/2013 at 23:08

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I seriously don't understand the whole "V6 Camry" argument used against the Toyobaru twins. 80% of my Camry encounters end with my illegally overtaking them over the double yellow because they are driving so damn slowly.

Lets take a different example: my Dad's Toyota Sequoia will do 0-60 in 6.5 seconds, which is faster than the 6.9 seconds of my E46 BMW 330xi, but the Japanese bruiser feels anything but fast to drive in the real world.

Darthtoad > Chteelers 09/08/2013 at 23:09

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BRZ would be better off with a supercharger to keep that torque curve nice and flat. Keep most of the linear NA character with none of the turbo power spike.

damonchoy > somemarine 09/08/2013 at 23:09

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Aspen white.

'02 was most definitely not the best year, by the way. ;)

At least in my opinion, haha.

Duckferd > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/08/2013 at 23:12

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The reason I say that this car needs more power doesn't come from the fact that it's slow. 200 hp in a car of this weight is pretty ample for a daily driver and weekend trackdays (as demonstrated by Honda for over a decade).

The issue is that the engine just isn't very good. The transmission is so notchy I felt like I was grinding it with each shift. The engine sounds coarse and the noise it makes isn't very great either. It doesn't seem to want to rev up to 7K. There's a weird torque hole in the mid-lower rev range, and power seems to flatten out 1K revs before redline. The aforementioned Civic in Si form has a significantly better powertrain, in pretty much every single way; while slow, the Si's party trick of 8500 rpm and a VTEC kick actually does make the powertrain extremely engaging in comparison.

I remember saying this in another Toyobaru post, but the engine isn't setting my world on fire, it might as well do something useful and take advantage of the chassis' potential (the best part about the Toyobaru). The car can take another 50hp with no issues. The only other thing that can help this car, in my opinion, is if the tiny decklid trunk becomes an actual liftback, a la scion tC, to make the most of the tiny space.

Jay Naling > pwolfamv 09/08/2013 at 23:13

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I know this guy.

pwolfamv > NinetyQ 09/08/2013 at 23:23

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I don't envy anyone who gets the short straw and has to sit back there.

TiredAndSleepy > damonchoy 09/08/2013 at 23:23

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'03 was the best year. ;) After that the cars started to lose character. They upped the specs, but they look like a honda now.

1337 MR2 > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/08/2013 at 23:28

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The tires "come loose easily enough" because Subaru?Toyota equipped the car with crappy substandard, low-grip tires. Narrow ones, at that. The car also returns AWFUL fuel economy for its displacement. a 3.5L 265whp Camry V6 does better than the BRZ/FRS on the highway. That's pathetic. Oh, and the engine doesn't actually breathe better at high RPM like a 4AGE.. It's just screaming for mercy. Boring.

damonchoy > TiredAndSleepy 09/08/2013 at 23:29

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I liked them up until 08+.

Really, you can't go wrong with any of the GD chassis ones ('02-'07). They're pretty much identical aside from engine displacement and front ends. It's just a matter of if you prefer the bugeye, the blobeye or the hawkeye.

I'd personally love to own a GC chassis Impreza (swapped or imported WRX or STi). I almost bought one but couldn't insure it. :( #OntarioCanadaRHDInsuranceProblems

Boss2452stolemylunchmoney > manifold engines 09/08/2013 at 23:37

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Not what your mom said...

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/08/2013 at 23:38

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I'll be the negative nancy in the room - I hate the BRZ/FR-S shifter. I would've liked a touch more travel and a more solid engagement feel. I LOVE my audi's shifter despite the long throw. It is all about that beautiful *click-CLUNK* when you get off a good shift at speed. I have heard the phrase "Like a bolt-action rifle" to describe a proper shifter feel and I have to agree with that after my old audi. So over 20 years of development later and the FR-S and BRZ feel.......well the feel was like a more precise version of my 1000$ 1998 jetta. The jetta's shifter is rubbery to throw and has a similar engagement feel. It is just a bit questionable and feels unfulfilling.

Yes it handles very nicely and actually I do enjoy the boxer engine's sound and personality. But that shifter is a pile of crap compared to the work of art in my Audi.

NinetyQ > pwolfamv 09/08/2013 at 23:41

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It's okay. On a different occasion, I was in the driver's seat.

PardonMyFlemish16 > Chteelers 09/08/2013 at 23:42

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Turbo is not the answer

More displacement, which comes at no cost of weight, material or response is it. 220-230HP from a 2.5L with a flat torque curve would solidify the car's greatness.

webmonkees > manifold engines 09/08/2013 at 23:49

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Not sure if this answers your question... I'd have to measure her.

koopiskeva > pwolfamv 09/08/2013 at 23:49

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I remember this guy..

boneheadotto > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/08/2013 at 23:52

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Ive been following the BRZ for what seems like forever. From the original concepts through the concepts upon concepts. Im still saddened by the cast that is does not look like the very production viable 2009 concept

http://jalopnik.com/5375233/toyota…

But the more i read about this car as it approached production the more i realized it was just a less expensive S2000. I settled on a used S2000 and it is one hell of a car. It has all the characteristics of the BRZ but the shifter is superior, the steering more twitchy, and the interior more driver focused and consisting of higher quality materials. It just feels that much more of a drivers car. I really wish Honda would bring back that car in the same spirit. In teh mean time im loving mine

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The man in the iron mask > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/08/2013 at 23:55

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i like the car, i wish it had a 6 flat engine

TiredAndSleepy > damonchoy 09/09/2013 at 00:02

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I'm partial to the Bugeye. Weekly my wife tells me I need a new car. Never!

Sorry about the insurance. That sucks.

Dennis loves you too > Chteelers 09/09/2013 at 00:07

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370z's go for almost 50k fully loaded

mprosser > nealsoad 09/09/2013 at 00:11

1

the pics in this are from indy? it's snowing there somehow?? it's 85 4 hours west of there in the chicago suburbs lol. i was wondering where or when this took place because of the snow in the pics

AntiHero > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/09/2013 at 00:31

2

For those scared by high HP, for those who argue the virtues of gutlessness, don't worry—a block of wood bolted under the accelerator (or shifting at 3,000 rpm) would keep you from scaring yourself silly if the BR-Z had a turbo. That's the great thing about HP—if you don't want it, it's easy to avoid using it. M3 drivers in the fast lane doing 62mph demonstrate this every day.

WordFlyer > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/09/2013 at 00:57

1

I'm in the process of car-shopping, as my trusty old Wrangler was just totalled. I'm looking at the BRZ/FR-S twins as well as the Mazdaspeed 3 and Focus ST. Obviously, the hot hatches are more practical, and it seems their track times are better too, but I really, really like this car. Maybe someone can convince me this car is practical enough....

rabidcontent > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/09/2013 at 01:19

2

I had an AE86 and would often think "If this thing had more power and I didn't have to explain to people why it was awesome despite being homely, I would be truly happy". I haven't had much opportunity to drive fast sports cars in my adult life, but that 86 was fast in it's own right, and those only had what...112hp? This has 200, and is balanced like some freaky ancient hero sword. I mean what has a lower C.O.G., the LFA maybe? They'll give it more power at some point, and if they don't, plenty of companies will do it for you. I don't think they were trying to blow away the M3 and 370z drivers with this new awesome sports car, I think they were giving all the people who had 86's and similar vehicles what they wanted, a sub 30k rwd sports car that can be driven 10/10 all the time. I'm thinking it's a safe bet that, like my old 86', you're smiling every time you finish a drive in this car.

NinetyQ > brandondrums 09/09/2013 at 01:24

1

I'd rather have the lower horsepower variant. There's something to be said about being able to slide around corners at legal or semi-legal speeds, and being able to rev it out to redline without getting into trouble too quickly. For those with a desire for more power, the BRZ's flaws are easy to correct. For the rest of us, it could hardly get more fun for a street car.

TheCrudMan > Chteelers 09/09/2013 at 01:24

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200 horsepower is twice as much as an NA Miata...as an NA Miata driver I'd say that amount of power would be pretty nice....

Also it can easily out accelerate a Camry, maybe not the V6...but that's the thing. With more power you don't get the delight of driving the thing hard and running through the gears near redline every day....you get that with less power. If I try to drive my Grandpa's 135i in as spirited a manner as I drive my Miata I would be hitting autobahn speeds on residential streets in absolutely no time..soooo you've got to put-put around 99% of the time instead of really thrashing the thing and having a blast....soooo in many cases less power is actually a good thing...especially in a lightweight sportscar that checks all the other boxes.

But yeah, 200 seems like plenty. The GTI feels fast with 200. The Fiesta ST feels fast with 200 (well, less even). Those cars are a blast to drive on the street, track, or autocross.

arminyack > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/09/2013 at 01:27

1

I've had my FR-S for over a year now...and I still just love it. The things you can get away with in this car are unparalleled...maybe the MX-5 can....but the MX-5 is so damned powerless, its just loses me. This much fun for this little money..what a blessing!

Now....once I upgraded my tires from the stock banshee screamers to the Dunlop Direzza ZII's....that was when I felt it was definitely time for a power upgrade. I can now push the car to its limit...and not even come close to running out of grip the majority of the time on my spirited freeway entrances and exits.

NinetyQ > AntiHero 09/09/2013 at 01:30

1

You're missing the point entirely. It's not about being "afraid to use it." Allow me to explain.

This car is cheaper to buy, cheaper to own, and cheaper to insure because it is not turbocharged and is not incredibly powerful. It is also an incredible ball of fun on the street exactly because it isn't a 400 hp machine. You can rev the nuts off it and not end up running off the road or ending up at highly illegal speeds too quickly.

And yet, I wouldn't accuse it of being a slow car either. It's really not bad in terms of power.

I can understand those who want more power. If I were going to race it or drive it seriously hard instead of just having fun with it, I would too. I'd be happy if Subaru introduced a trim line with a bigger or more powerful engine. But don't kill the low-horsepower funmobile.

pen_suhl > pwolfamv 09/09/2013 at 01:43

1

Pick up a set of clear side markers asap, and a 2" or 4" shorty antenna. It makes the car so much cleaner. Also welcome to the family.

pwolfamv > pen_suhl 09/09/2013 at 02:11

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Thanks! I was thinking of maybe going with smoked markers. Might look a bit cleaner on the darker blue.

Outie5000 > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/09/2013 at 02:56

1

Vented Discs and two piston calipers up front... Magic RaceCar technology standard on such magical race cars such as the 1982 Volvo 240.

Sc0pe > magman007 09/09/2013 at 03:36

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You asked, so you shall receive.

nb2abarth > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/09/2013 at 03:53

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hey i hv an 02 sedan also(since 02). i have only driven one other generation, a lightly modded 2012 sti hatch and aside from the light steering and lack of feel, i really like it.

The man in the iron mask > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/09/2013 at 04:17

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You don’t ask to drive a man’s car unless that man is in the business of selling it.
so damn true, and my uncle had a bad experience when selling it though, the bloke who was testing it crashed, but he did buy the car almost totaled, it was an audi a4

lepie > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/09/2013 at 05:02

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I've driven one several times now. It's a frustrating car.

First of all, it doesn't sound like a boxer. It just doesn't. There's no rumble, no soul. It sounds like any other four banger appliance. I found that to be very disappointing. I mean, if you're gonna make a car that is all about fun, then you'd better make it sound interesting. Sound, at least for me, is a big part of the package.

Second. No, there isn't enough power. I don't care what anyone says. There just isn't enough power. Power-wise, it just feels like any other economy-engined sedan. There's this buzzing noise that grows to a louder buzzing noise, and then eventually you'll hit the speed you're looking for. I'd rate the power as adequate for a commuter car, but lacking for a true sports car. The utter lack of torque is frustrating. You have to rev the piss out of it to get it to go

Third. The weight. The GT-86 weights 1298 kgs fully optioned up. I'm sorry, but this does not qualify as light weight. The scion FR-S starts at 1250 and goes up to 1275. Granted, this is with a full tank of fuel ... but it's still not lightweight. An e46 328i has a curb weight of 1450 kg, that's only 150 kg more than the fully loaded GT-86, and it carries 15 more litres of fuel. My opel speedster has a curb weight of 870 kg. THAT's lightweight.

Fourth. The handling. The handling is ... interesting. It's very balanced, very poised, and very responsive. It is definitely set up for quick steering, rather than stability. There is a definite tendency to understeer ... quite a bit, but this can be said for almost any modern RWD car as understeer is the safe kind of *steer, right? The back wants to come out and play eventually, and when it does, things are quite progressive. However ... when you start to push things a bit further, things get more interesting. The back becomes quite vague at higher speeds and loads. The brakes quickly lose their edge, etc, etc. Of course, you can (and probably will) modify the car to get rid of this. The after-market for these cars will be HUGE, in fact, it's already starting. I know it's not fair to demand this from a stock car, but it's not fair to lavish all kinds of undeserved praise on it either.

Fifth. Steering. Brilliant. Can't fault it.

Sixth. Shifter. Very good, but a bit lacking in engagement feedback. That's just IMHO of course.

Then there's the interior. Mixed feelings about this one. I don't think there's a lack of quality. People just piss and moan about it, but i think it's fine. Yeah sure, it's no merc or BMW, but neither is the miata for example. It's no luxury car, but it is more than adequate. If you're buying this for the interior, then you're wrong. The seats are great, and so is the seating position. The controls are simple and well laid out.

BUT ... Why oh why do the japanese always mess things up on the interior? Why do we need the giant plastic whateveritis panel on the right side of the dash? And WHY (?!!) does it need to be that in-your-face-will-scratch-without-even-trying fake aluminium silver color on the BRZ? WHY?! It's like the roundabout on the RX8's center console, or the STUPID arch on the MX5s center console. WHY?! Just give us a traditional straight dash, don't try to be fancy with it. I just don't onderstand. They get it 99% right, and then all of a sudden "HAHAHA LAWL ENJOY THE EYESORE".

I have many feelings for and against the GT86/FRS/BRZ, but i'll close with this (and these are just my two cents):

- It's not a sports car as much as it is a fun car. It's good at sliding around stuff, but not very good at going around stuff fast.

- It's too expensive, especially the subaru.

- It feels as if it has been dialed down in it's development process. Possibly toyota trying to hold back subaru.

——-

I'm seriously thinking about buying one, but i have to include the price of a supercharger kit, a set of decent UEL headers and exhaust, better brakes, etc in the price of purchase ... so that i can turn it into an actual sports car.

My speedster is a lot more rewarding to drive, and it's not even that much faster than the GT86 in stock form. It's also a lot more punishing to drive. Sometimes the two go hand in hand. I think the problem is that the term "sports car" gets thrown around much too easily nowadays. Even those silly crossover things (that shouldn't exist imho) are sometimes referred to as sports car. I swear, i could punch one of those sales guys in the nads when they do that.

I've also owned an E60 M5 (until it got stolen). It had a glorious high revving V10 which sounded fantastic. It had a stupid transmission that would turn into a brilliant transmission at illegal speeds. It was awesome to drive, but it was NOT a sports car. It weighted 1850KGs, it was big, had cooled seats, TV, etc etc ... all kinds of shit you don't need (or want) in a sports car.

I'm watching out for the alfa 4C, which is shaping up to be a true sports car (if they don't mess it up).

tobythesandwich > NinetyQ 09/09/2013 at 05:37

2

It's futile. Jalopnik's entire reason for existence is to bitch incessantly.

FlyingGoose > NinetyQ 09/09/2013 at 06:12

0

Picture is worth a thousand words! Thanks Troy. I never would expect much in the leg room department from a car like this but it's still nice to know.

Wojtek > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/09/2013 at 07:19

1

No chrome insert = good. He means business, not cheap jewelry.

Chteelers > Dennis loves you too 09/09/2013 at 07:51

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If you tick all the boxes. Same's true for any car. I got mine for 35

Chteelers > TheCrudMan 09/09/2013 at 07:53

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Still, power. Driving a fast car fast is better than a slow car fast. Anyone who says otherwise is justifying their slow car.

Aearonjer > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/09/2013 at 08:00

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Sprintex supercharger, will do fine. :) Cant wait to get my 86 :D

Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig > Outie5000 09/09/2013 at 08:16

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"magical safe cars..." Fixed it for you.

Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig > rabidcontent 09/09/2013 at 08:18

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I agree entirely. People keep comparing its power to cars outside its segment. The trouble is, there aren't any cars inside its segment.

Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig > WordFlyer 09/09/2013 at 08:21

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Ummm...let's see...it's easy to change the belts...

...

...34 mpg...

...and that's about it. For practicality, the other two destroy it, frankly.

Dest > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/09/2013 at 08:40

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This is why I'm glad my car doesn't have worthless back seats.

Sonic_the_Dreadnaught > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/09/2013 at 08:56

1

I sat in both twins at the NY auto show, and absolutely loved the feel of the BRZ. Not sure how it performs, but I wouldn't mind doing an Early Kyler with the frame.....

Beju > marshknute 09/09/2013 at 09:14

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People forget that lightweight sports cars have frequently been less quick than big-engined family sedans of their day.

The 1970 Datsun 240Z would've gotten smoked by a high output 350 Malibu in a straight line, let alone one of the big block variants. Same goes for the MGB (yes, even the V8 version).

Phlegminglib > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 09/09/2013 at 09:18

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I'm going to throw my opinion on this too: I've driven the BRZ and used to own both a Honda S2000 and a Porsche Cayman S, and though the Cayman's throw was like rowing a boat compared to either, the Cayman's shifter was way more satisfying to engage (but a tiny bit vague).

Beju > Chteelers 09/09/2013 at 09:26

1

I say otherwise, and I owned a 115whp Miata and a 295whp Mazdaspeed3 at the same time, so that's a car that's faster than a stock 370Z from a roll if I remember to turn off DSC.

Granted, that wasn't exactly apples to apples with it being RWD vs. FWD, but living in a large city, I barely ever get to use the Mazdaspeed3's power. That's even with a solution for torque steer that I like to call, "Man the fuck up and stop being a bitch."

chriswhotakesphotos > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/09/2013 at 09:41

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I millennial would get a BR-Z long before a Corvette. Maybe not a C7, but definitely a C6.

fritzo > Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig 09/09/2013 at 09:53

2

I'm Lt. Dan for the Subaru BRZ, and I think it has PLENTY of backseat room.